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Hi, I want to say I really appreciate this forum and thanks to whoever makes it possible. I would not have anyone to correspond with about this stuff if it didn't exist. As far as I know, this stuff is not seen or collected in america.

Anyways, this is my first purchase and I just got it on the specialistauctions.com site. (your UK collecting auction site) I bought this because it's a Thiel factory item and has a complete clockwork mechanism. I have not received it yet but would like to know what can I study or do to make getting it to tick again possible? seller says it's complete and could be made to tick again with a little care.
Any guides or websites that show a schematic of this clock work? Or should I look up the Thiel patents?
oh, also, it is said to be an naval illumination round. are these hard to find or easy?

compared to a FZ 60 parachute fuze that I want to find?

here is another shot of the illumination clockwork round
I am not sure if these are rare but they must have made a huge quantity of them. I know you live in the USA but if you ever get the chance visit the Beltring show here in the UK in July or even better go to the Ciney shows in Belgium in April and October as loads of this stuff turns up recovered as surplus old stock from Finland Norway etc or recovered from Poland France Germany etc. What you think is rare and unavailable, surprisingly turns up at these shows. One year S-Mine44s appeared as well as the hard to get time fuzes etc. You have to keep your eyes peeled and friends around the world informed of your wants. I think it was me who told you about the specialist auction. As for info and drawings. I believe that most enemy ordnance was evaluated by army technical departments.
I have some info regarding German smoke grenades that was evaluated by the US Army, very detailed.
I found the National Archives in your neck of the woods are very helpful as a lot of captured enemy documents went to the states for evaluation. We have the public records office that hold tons of reports on enemy ordnance as well.
I have exploded diagrams etc., for "Mechanism, Time, 80 Seconds Nos 1 and 1A", also "Mechanism , Time 43 Sec., No.4." Although these are British components the mechanism was copied from the Germans at the end of the Great War. There are minor differences, but essentialy the same.

PM me with your email address.

I just purchased 2 of these ZZS/60 time fuzes ,and wondered if anyone had any further info on them.Both are heavily stamped


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ZZ. S60 n.A.

Hi Hothmobile , here some info on the fuze and the shell it was used on:

Description of the projectile:
Cutaway model of a 8,8cm LG (Leuchtgeschossladung / Illuminating charge) patrone L/4,4 for the German WW2 flak 18, 36/37 gun.
The projectile exists of a machined drawn steel body which is threaded in top to receive the ZZ. S60 n.A.
In the base of the projectile a steel baseplate is placed, held in place by three red copper radial placed shear pins (at 120 degr each) and three axial placed steel pins (at 120 degr.) half on the circumference of the baseplate and the projectile body each, preventing the baseplate of rotation compared to the projectile body upon firing.
The flare exists of a thin steel cup with a base flange. A swivel with a lug (for parachute wires) is connected to the base flange of the cup with a double threaded long bolt that also runs through the flare and locks up the flare composition with a steel cross on top of the flare (M11 in base flange , M10 for top nut steel cross). The top of the flare composition has a ”easier to ignite mix” (light gray) on top as well as four black powder cylinders at 90 degr. each to ignite the flare composition. An inert mixture (white) is placed around the bolt to prevent it from melting away as the flare is burning. On top of the flare the expulsion flange is placed (dome shape) which has four holes at 90 degrees each to ignite the flare during expulsion. A ring with radial holes is placed over the outer rim of the expulsion flange; this to enshure the gas leaking away between the outside of the flare and the inside of the projectile body on expulsion is evenly distributed. The expulsion charge (red bag) exists of black powder and is placed on top of the dome.
A black powder booster charge in a brass cup is screwed into the top of the projectile body to boost the flame of the fuze before it ignites the expulsion charge.
The parachute is packed in two steel cylinder halves (180 degr each, 4 mm wallthickness) which act as a press piece between flare and baseplate on expulsion.
The parachute is made of a very stirdy white fabric, the wires are 2,5 mm in diameter.
Upon functioning of the fuze, the brass cup with black powder is ignited, on it’s turn igniting the expulsion charge. The expulsion flange , the flare and the pipe halves start to push upon the base plate untill the three red copper shear pins break and the base plate is released.

Description and functioning of ZZ. S60 n.A.:
The fuze exists of the body (1) with the rotatable nose cap (2) on top. Rotating the nosecap sets the desired time lapse untill the firing pin is activated. Inside the nosecap is the key-keyhole mechanism. The key (4) only fits the keyhole (3) connected to the nosecap (2) in only one way. The key is placed over a hollow shaft (5), which houses a spring that wants to push the key upward when key and keyhole are in “fitting” position. The hollow shaft is connected to the main gearwheel (8) which also houses a strong clock spring on the inside that rotates the key. The key however is locked up by a swivel lock (6) which –on it’s turn- is held in position by a spring loaded pin (7) that falls into a groove of the swivel lock (6). Upon firing , the set back force pulls down the swivel lock (6) , releasing the key.
Connected to the main gearwheel (8) is a reduction gearbox (9) which ends in a so called “regulator” (10). This regulator enshures that the spring driven gearbox runs at a constant speed.
The firing pin (15) has a partial flange with a chamfered edge that rests on a pin (16) with a rounded top. A spring (12)on top of the flange wants to push the firing pin down into the firing cap (13). However, as long as the partial flange rests upon the pin, the firing pin cannot move down. To enable this, the firing pin has to rotate a few degrees, so the partial flange can pass the pin. The top of the firing pin is shaped regtangular, fitting a regtangular recess in the spoon (11). The spoon has a hook which hooks behind the inner circumference of the hole in the key.
When key (5) and keyhole (3) fit, the key jumps up, releasing the spoon (11) that is hooked behind the inner circumference of the hole in the key. The spoon rotates outward, releasing the firing pin and so igniting the firing cap. The rounded top of the pin (16) and the chamfered edge on the flange of the firing pin (15) enshure the firing pin will not get stuck.

The projectile does not have a self destruct device, so after expulsion the projectile body will return to earth in one piece, which is a risk over populated areas. Therefore a later design was made for a projectile with a self detruct device; the 8,8cm Gr. Leucht-zerlege, see:

Length of the complete round: 915mm
Length of the projectile : 395mm (with fuze), 331mm (without fuze)
Vo = 650 mtrs/sec
minimal expulsion height: 240 - 340 m’
burning time: 21 seconden
Light intensity: 510.000 Hefner light units (1 Hefner light unit = 0,903 Candela)

Chemical composition of the flare:
Old model:
50% bariumnitrate
34% magnesium
14% sulfer
2% parafine

New model:
48,5% bariumnitrate
48,5% magnesium
3% magnesium-stearine

Ersatz (replacement)-model:
55% bariumnitrate
20% Aluminium-Griess (granulate)
25% Aluminium-Pyroschliff (powder?)
3% parafine oil.

Source : a norwegian manual abaut German coastal artillery.

Regards DJH

Ps: this posting can also be found here : http://www.wk2ammo.com/


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Wow thanks Pzgr40,thats explained everything,plus your usual nice cutaways
Here is one that ive just acquired.


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