7,62cm PzGr. 40

[marek_wawa]

Hello,
I'd like to show you one of my Pzgr.40 7,62cm projectile. I was thinking about restoring it, could you guys provide some information about markings and the paint job on these thing? There's not much info about them online.
Regards, Marek

 

[jiipee76]

Finnish Army manual from wartime says: "Rounds are full painted black,they have red loading markings and white driving ring type stencil KPS or FEW"

 

[RichardB]

Jiipee76,
lve seen other "rot" 7,62cm Pzgr rounds with a red band just above the driving band.
would that be the same for all German manufactured rounds for Russian guns, inc this one ?

 

[marek_wawa]

jiipee76 this could be right regarding 7,5cm Pzgr40, the ones made for captured soviet 7,62 guns should be a little bit different.

View attachment 119787View attachment 119788View attachment 119789View attachment 119790

Finnish Army manual from wartime says: "Rounds are full painted black,they have red loading markings and white driving ring type stencil KPS or FEW"

 

[marek_wawa]

Ok, next question. Was this projectile used in 7,62 PaK casings only? There were shorter steel casings made for captured 76,2mm ZIS-3, would it be possible that they wese also used in those casingse ?

 

[greif]

Jiipee76,
lve seen other "rot" 7,62cm Pzgr rounds with a red band just above the driving band.
would that be the same for all German manufactured rounds for Russian guns, inc this one ?

A red band above the driving band means an alteration of the driving band (see Lfd Nr 47).

All 7,62 cm shells had a white tip (AP) or a white band just below the fuze (HE or HC) to distinguish them from the 7,5 cm rounds (see Lfd Nr 26).

 

[greif]

Ok, next question. Was this projectile used in 7,62 PaK casings only? There were shorter steel casings made for captured 76,2mm ZIS-3, would it be possible that they wese also used in those casingse ?

Marek,
Your projectile is very interesting but raises 2 questions:
1- the ballistic cap is entirely filled with plastic/bakelite (see expansion holes) and there is no threaded ring to screw it onto the body. Question: was there screw thread made in the plastic/bakelite or was the cap put in place and then moulded attaching it to the body?
2- according to the Geschossringbuch the driving band of the 7,62 cm Pzgr 40 had a width of 17,4 mm. It seems to me that the driving band of your projectile was machined to narrow it down to ??? mm, probably to make it suitable for another 7,62 cm gun with a lower velocity. But what gun?

I found this drawing of the 7,62 cm Pzgr Patr 40 (r) for the 7,62 cm FK 296 (r) -russ36-.

regards,
greif

 

[marek_wawa]

Thanks a lot greif!! This is something I was looking for for a long time!
Answer to question 1: The bakelite was filling the entire ballistic cap as you wrote. This particular piece is damaged and the threading in the bakelite is broken off. The bakelite was threaded and was screwed onto the projectile but I've seen one with a different setup. I'll try to find photos.
Answer to question nr 2: I will take mesurements tomorrow and post them here for you.

 

[fert]

Marek,
Your projectile is very interesting but raises 2 questions:
1- the ballistic cap is entirely filled with plastic/bakelite (see expansion holes) and there is no threaded ring to screw it onto the body. Question: was there screw thread made in the plastic/bakelite or was the cap put in place and then moulded attaching it to the body?
2- according to the Geschossringbuch the driving band of the 7,62 cm Pzgr 40 had a width of 17,4 mm. It seems to me that the driving band of your projectile was machined to narrow it down to ??? mm, probably to make it suitable for another 7,62 cm gun with a lower velocity. But what gun?

I found this drawing of the 7,62 cm Pzgr Patr 40 (r) for the 7,62 cm FK 296 (r) -russ36-.

regards,
greif

Helo Greif,
could you tell me what manual is it please?
regards

 

[marek_wawa]

I would like to know too if it's not a big deal
Regards, Marek

 

[greif]

I really don't remember where the copies came from, it was too long ago, but I think it was one of the H.Dv. 119/'s.
@Marek: is it possible to measure the diameter at the bourrelet.?

 

[sgdbdr]

Marek,


Thanks for showing this projectile.
A special mention for the quality of your pictures !
Maybe you can offer us a tutorial in the off topics discussion...


Regards,

S.

 

[RichardB]

100% agree the quality and style is great... Marek, can you describe the setup (lighting, backdrop etc) in the off-topic photo thread
http://www.bocn.co.uk/vbforum/threads/94529-Photography-anyone - or start a new one
Rich

 

[marek_wawa]

Hi, sure sgdbdr and RichardB, I'll post a new thread with the lighting setup etc. Just give me a few days, I'm in a middle of a small crisis right now

 

[Nabob]

I really don't remember where the copies came from, it was too long ago, but I think it was one of the H.Dv. 119/'s.
@Marek: is it possible to measure the diameter at the bourrelet.?

HDv 119/121

Bob

 

[fert]

thank you Bob,
miss it, need to look for.

regards

 

[sgdbdr]

Hi Bob,


Do you know a link to download a digital copy of the HDv 119/121 ?
Thanks

Regards,

S.

 

[Nabob]

Sorry, I do not have a link.
The hard copy is in the Military Archive in Prague.
I am not allowed to post the copy on the web. They would never let me in again
I photographed only the part with ammunition data anyway. If You have any questions do not hasitate.

Bob

 

[marek_wawa]

Hi, sure sgdbdr and RichardB, I'll post a new thread with the lighting setup etc. Just give me a few days, I'm in a middle of a small crisis right now

I hope that helps
http://www.bocn.co.uk/vbforum/threads/94665-Simple-photo-tutorial-and-lighting-setup

 

[marek_wawa]

Marek,
Your projectile is very interesting but raises 2 questions:
1- the ballistic cap is entirely filled with plastic/bakelite (see expansion holes) and there is no threaded ring to screw it onto the body. Question: was there screw thread made in the plastic/bakelite or was the cap put in place and then moulded attaching it to the body?
2- according to the Geschossringbuch the driving band of the 7,62 cm Pzgr 40 had a width of 17,4 mm. It seems to me that the driving band of your projectile was machined to narrow it down to ??? mm, probably to make it suitable for another 7,62 cm gun with a lower velocity. But what gun?

I found this drawing of the 7,62 cm Pzgr Patr 40 (r) for the 7,62 cm FK 296 (r) -russ36-.

regards,
greif

Hi greif. I'm sorry but I was quite busy and couldn't find the tme to take measuremants and photos.
This is how it lookes like. The bakelite is fully covering the inside ot the cap and ends with a thread on the bottom part. This is how it was all screwed together.


Dimensions measured with calipers:



I hope that helps
Regards, Marek