More German Squeezebores

[RichardB]

Awesome rounds, Dave/Lou and Ben really nice to see such items.

Dave/Lou/Ben: do you know how the penetration capability of the German 10,5 and 7,5cm rounds compared with the equivalent Pzgr.
...and Did any other nationalities than Germans and British utilise squeezebore technology? ...Russia?

Keep the pictures coming

Rich

 

[SG500]

Awesome rounds, Dave/Lou and Ben really nice to see such items.

Dave/Lou/Ben: do you know how the penetration capability of the German 10,5 and 7,5cm rounds compared with the equivalent Pzgr.
...and Did any other nationalities than Germans and British utilise squeezebore technology? ...Russia?

Keep the pictures coming

Rich

Rich there was a really good article in one of the ECRA journals a few years ago about some more recent squeezebore studies, I'll have to dig them out and look, similarly the penetration of the 7.5 is in the books so I must have a search through. The 105 I have is an HE so wasn't designed in the AP role, I don't know if they made a cored version.
Attached some photos of my 4.2's with a case plus a 2.8cm on the left for scale. They've all been shown in various posts, I just wanted to put them together in this post. All are real & are amongst my favourites. The one that is third from the right has had the part forward of the front flange repainted black for some reason. The 3 on the right all came from completely different sources and all have residue of a grey, almost graphite type paint on them, I'm certain this is real, its the same type on all 3 projectiles. I'm assuming its to help with lubrication but this is a complete guess, does anyone have similar rounds with this on them? If anyone has any spares I'd be interested to add to the collection :tinysmile_hmm_t:.
Dave.

 

[EOD]

Russia did only experiments in the 1930's, then during WWII again and shortly after (basing on German designs). They developed several weapons including a 76/57mm AT gun and a 23/20mm automatic gun. Decided that no real gain to be expected in AT role since AT missiles were under development already.
In the mid-1990's Ukraine tried to upgrade the Soviet 2A42 gun with a squeeze bore but was not able to produce proper barrels and used projectiles with lead bodies (only 200 made) - of course this went nowhere.

 

[SG500]

Awesome rounds, Dave/Lou and Ben really nice to see such items.

Dave/Lou/Ben: do you know how the penetration capability of the German 10,5 and 7,5cm rounds compared with the equivalent Pzgr.
...and Did any other nationalities than Germans and British utilise squeezebore technology? ...Russia?

Keep the pictures coming

Rich

Rich there's loads of info on the web about armour penetration capability of these rounds, the problem is its quite hard to compare them all, they're measured at different distances and different angles of impact, different web sites have different numbers for the same projectile. I've got into the books and looked around on the web, the following give you some good pointers. NOTE I'm not saying the figures are right, its always nice to get hold of original information rather than relying on web sites, but it is a start and perhaps someone on the forum can add to this.
Dave.

2.8cm PzB 41
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2.8_cm_sPzB_41
At 100 metres penetration was 52-69mm at 60 degrees or 75mm at 90 degrees.
At 500 metres penetration was 40-52mm at 60 degrees.
Effective range was 500 metres.

4.2cm PAK 41
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/4.2_cm_Pak_41
http://www.lonesentry.com/articles/ttt/42mm-tapered-bore-antitank-gun.html
http://www.lonesentry.com/articles/ttt07/ammunition-pak41.html
At 550m 87mm
Effective range was 1000 metres.

7,5cm PAK 41
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/7.5_cm_Pak_41
http://www.lonesentry.com/articles/ttt/75mm-tapered-bore-antitank-pak-41.html
At 500m 170mm
At 1500m 135mm
Effective range was 1500 metres.

6 pounder 7cwt
http://www.canadiansoldiers.com/weapons/ordnance/6pounder.htm
At 1000 metres 146mm

17 pounder APDS.
http://www.wwiiequipment.com/index....er-anti-tank-gun&catid=40:anti-tank&Itemid=58
At 500m 182mm
At 1000m 165mm
At 2000m 130mm

 

[EOD]

...and Did any other nationalities than Germans and British utilise squeezebore technology? ...Russia?
Rich

I forgot, the Swiss did in their 47mm Pak41 which used projectiles made by Bofors, These were officially adopted and used a little john adaptor on regular guns. After some accidents with full bore ammo fired from the guns with the adaptors still on, the squeeze bore ammo was phased out again.
Experiments were also made by Gerlich himself in Denmark (the well known 29/20 Schultz& Larsen) and the US. After his death his research was sold to the French where they kept on with some experiments.
Also let us not forget the US salvo squeeze bore in several calibers like .50, 7.62 NATO, 5.56 NATO, 9 NATO and .45 ACP.
After WWII when Germany was allowed to have armed forces again there was also some experimenting with squeeze bores again but this was little an lead nowhere.
The Swedes made a 9x19 squeeze bore somewhen after WWII if I recall it right.
I am sure I still forgot some.

 

[SG500]

EOD mentions the Swiss 47mm littlejohn, see attached link for several of the littlejohn variations including the 47mm.
Dave.
http://www.bocn.co.uk/vbforum/threa...-pounder-littlejohn?highlight=47mm+littlejohn

 

[SG500]

Another nice 4.2.
Thanks to Der Uhu for sending me the photograph.
Dave.

 

[Gau 8]

Here's a photo of my 28/20, still looking for a case........:tinysmile_hmm_t2:
Gau 8

 

[US-Subs]

Some of mine.

 

[SG500]

Thanks US-Subs, nice rounds. The 4.2 HE is REALLY nice, would you mind doing some close up photos of it please.
Thanks.
Dave.

 

[US-Subs]

Dave,
I wish that it were a lot nicer, but it was the only I ever found that I had a chance to get, so I won't complain too much. The fuze is not correct, but it was in the projectile when I got it and will remain there until I find a better one.

 

[SG500]

Very very nice and rare to find one of the HE ones in such good condition, thanks.
Dave.

 

[EOD]

Some of mine.

View attachment 60418

Jeff, the left one is no squeeze bore.

 

[SG500]

Jeff, the left one is no squeeze bore.

See the attached, there's a few on there including Jeffs.
SG113A recoilless anti tank.
Agreed not squeeze but very nice all the same.
Dave.
http://www.bocn.co.uk/vbforum/threads/73393-Sg-113-sg-116?highlight=sg113

 

[US-Subs]

EOD,
you are absolutely correct, that will teach me to rush through something and not take care to see what I am including. Give me a moment and i will redeem myself.

 

[US-Subs]

I was looking through the museum photos I'm working on earlier, hunting for rocket photos when I tripped across this. Thought you might like it and it helps to wipe the earlier egg off my face. If I get time in the coming days I'll look for some more.

 

[SG500]

I was looking through the museum photos I'm working on earlier, hunting for rocket photos when I tripped across this. Thought you might like it and it helps to wipe the earlier egg off my face. If I get time in the coming days I'll look for some more.


View attachment 60533View attachment 60534View attachment 60535 View attachment 60536View attachment 60537View attachment 60538View attachment 60539

Oh man that's absolutely wonderful!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! It just goes to show these things are still out there.
I really hope someone looks after that case, its always a bit upsetting when water gets to these things.
Same paint on the projectile I was asking about earlier in the thread, a thick graphite type paint that can be seen clearly between the 2 flanges.
Thanks for showing the photos.
Dave.

 

[US-Subs]

I found some more really nice ones in the photo collection, I'll post some tonight when I get home.

 

[EOD]

... and it helps to wipe the earlier egg off my face.

Jeff, no egg intended here. It was just not to let run less specialized viewers with a wrong impression.

 

[US-Subs]

I'll be the first to get confused on German experimentals. I've got access to some really great photos here, but have problems telling apart some of the squeezebore from discarding sabots, etc. I spent 20 minutes trying to figure out one squeezebore before I realized that it wasn't German----