ww1 German gas shell

[GI Zhou]

The 4-inch Stokes Mortars were originally for use with gas and some were filled with Mustard Gas during the war. This may be of use:
Twenty-seven four-inch Stokes mortars were available for creating smoke screens. The 4-inch
Stokes mortar was rushed into service for the Battle of Loos after a demonstration on 22 August that year. Twenty had been ordered for gas projection on 14 July 1915 so they were readily available. A smoke shell was extemporised out of paper-mach, tin, gun metal and iron and 10 000 rounds were assembled at the First Army workshops at St. Venant from parts and material, including 15 tons of red phosphorous, sent from Britain[1]. The rate of fire was of the 4-inch Stokes mortar was 20 rounds-per-minute but it could be quicker for two minutes. The 11.3kg white phosphorous bomb had a range of 760m. Edmonds, J.E. History of the Great War, Military Operations France and Belgium, 1915. Battles of Aubers Ridge, Festubert, and Loos, Macmillan, London, 1928, pp. 160 & 161; Edmonds, J.E. History of the Great War, Military Operations France and Belgium, 1915. Winter 1914-15: Battle of Neuve Chapelle: Battles of Ypres, Macmillan, London, 1927, pp. 8 & 9.

 

[peteblight]

When you say we do you mean UK?
Under the Chemical Weapons Convention (CWC), old chemical weapons are either classed as pre 1925 or post 1925 (but prior to 1946).
The UK had an extensive CW program with overlapping periods of design and development. This can lead to problems with identifying munitions dates of manufacture.


If so, we (the UK) had during WW1 and WW2:

• 18pdrs (at least 3 mks)
• 25 pdrs (10 mks, with an additional Mk tested in Canada)
• 60pdrs (up to 7 types)
• 3.7" shells
• 4.5" (at least 13 mks)
• 5.5" (5 mks)
• 6" (at least 8 Mks, some of which can be identified as WW1 and others as WW2, due to their base ejection design)
• 9.2" shells.
• 30lb bombs (also modified to fit a 5" rocket motor)
• 50lb, 65lb, 250lb, 500lb and 1000lb bombs
• Livens, 3" mortars, 4" Stokes and 4.2" mortars
• 6lb ground bombs
• Mk1 Chemical mines
• Various toxic smoke generators
• 250lb and 400lb SCI's (flying cows)

If i've missed any i appologise as i don't have my reference book at home.
US Subs may be able to help out here!!!

 

[US-Subs]

You've pretty well covered the main stuff Pete. In the OCW Handbook we've got 132 pages on British OCW (old chemical weapons), but this includes 23 pages of text and different models of some of the same calibers, as well as a number of experimentals that we see mainly at the various former test areas. For historical purposes I've also included a few archival shots of stranger items, like the experiments with CW loaded "bottle bombs".

 

[Andysarmoury]

Thanks Peteblight and US-Subs and yes i should have said British sorry for that i never thought that there was going to be so many different types of projectiles that used gas many thanks as i have said this is a great thread and very interesting.
Andy

 

[US-Subs]

Much better than that thread of Pete's - what was it on again?

 

[peteblight]

Just noticed this thread is giving the flechette thread a serious run for it's money.....

 

[US-Subs]

Have you counted my posts in that one/this one yet? If its for a different thread, does it count for me, or against me?

 

[GI Zhou]

My error - The reference I have has had the four-inch Stokes trench-mortar mortar gas bombs loaded with phosgene, not mustard.

 

[navyman]

Hello again Doug,
Thanks for your information. I thought you had found a thinner type of chemical metal or you owned a paintbrush factory! I restore a variety of things and particularly enjoy making missing parts and sectioning. I wasn't sure if using less hardener with chemical metal would result in a weaker finish but will certainly give it a try. I have an inert 30mm German rifle grenade which is very badly corroded on one side. As they are relatively common, it will make a good trial piece. I have a lathe so sanding is not difficult for reasonably sized jobs. I'll let you know how it turns out.
Thanks again,
Guy.

 

[18pounder]

Hello again Doug,
Thanks for your information. I thought you had found a thinner type of chemical metal or you owned a paintbrush factory! I restore a variety of things and particularly enjoy making missing parts and sectioning. I wasn't sure if using less hardener with chemical metal would result in a weaker finish but will certainly give it a try. I have an inert 30mm German rifle grenade which is very badly corroded on one side. As they are relatively common, it will make a good trial piece. I have a lathe so sanding is not difficult for reasonably sized jobs. I'll let you know how it turns out.
Thanks again,
Guy.

hi
that sounds good guy.
i did a very basic retoration on a ww1 british rod grenade that had badly corroded fragmentation segments.
To get the rusted segments back to having sharpe defined edges, i pressed small slabs of metal putty/filler on to the worn areas and when dry ,sanded them back with a miniture file to create the angles.

post some images on the restoration section and start a thread !!

doug

 

[Der_Feldgraue]

Excellent photos!!! Very interesting to see the original paint including the small red rod on top of the EKZ 16 fuze.

 

[18pounder]

excellent images sir!!

is it ok if i copy the image with a blue cross for reference?

you never see colour photo's (of course) for good reference,you mostly have to relly on images or prints of some kind.

The fuze rod on the ekz,is it really painted red like this or is it oxidised?
if so i will correct my yellow cross shell.

keep em coming,great ref material.

just a thought

to all those that think these old munitions are harmless,look how the explosive has been preserved,and of course the deadly chemical inside!

tourists!!! mess with these at your perill!!

great stuff sir

18:congratsounder

 

[Der_Feldgraue]

It is really painted red. See this german army field artillery regulation from 1917 for reference:

 

[Exreler]

I think that this fuse with red nose was in shell with blue cross and production year 1917

 

[18pounder]

It is really painted red. See this german army field artillery regulation from 1917 for reference:

i hink i might paint mine red then!

thanks for that

18pdr

 

[Der_Feldgraue]

Here the data sheet from the britsh intelligences "Notes on German Fuzes " from 1918.

Another thing about your extremely well restored Gelbkreuz shell: The bottom after the copper ring was painted too, because these shells were used not only for the fieldgun FK 96 n/a as catridges but also for the FK 16 as separate ammo.

 

[18pounder]

Here the data sheet from the britsh intelligences "Notes on German Fuzes " from 1918.

Another thing about your extremely well restored Gelbkreuz shell: The bottom after the copper ring was painted too, because these shells were used not only for the fieldgun FK 96 n/a as catridges but also for the FK 16 as separate ammo.

thanyou for that sir.

i left the bottom bare metal so it wouldnt be mistaken as an 'original' thats all,and to show what the condition was like before.

should i paint it ??

thankyou for your kind words

18pounder

 

[Der_Feldgraue]

No, I would not necessarily paint the bottom. You can put it into a brass case. But I would paint the rod of the fuze. Very interesting shell. Here is mine for comparison:

 

[Der_Feldgraue]

Part II of the restoration and the result:

 

[18pounder]

very nice friend.
i love these shells,
18pounder.

i will pm you for advice on something...