20mm projectile ID

[Burney Davis]

Can anyone ID this projectile please. No markings and measures 20mm x 54mm. TIA

 

[MINENAZ16]

Hello,
As far as I know this short russian 20mm is 54mm long.
Not exactly the same (different tracer element) but no other idea.

 

[AKON_]

HI MINENAZ16
I continued your correct idea a bit...

Боеприпасы авиационных пушек "ШВАК", "ТНШ", "Б-20" - Альтернативная История

Боеприпасы авиационных пушек "ШВАК", "ТНШ", "Б-20" - Альтернативная История

alternathistory.ru

This is one of the development versions of the 20mm T cartridge.

​

Hi Burney Davis According to the data, the bullet should have 8 right- grooves. Is this true on your specimen?
Akon

 

[AKON_]

-In the archive fund: Air Force Command (Fund 29), inventory no. 40 . I found a record of 5 sheets for the 20mm T cartridge. Or rather, about its tests at the firing range. Dated to 1939.

-In the archive fund: Air Force Command (Fund 29), inventory no. 29 . I found a record of 374 sheets for the ...20mm cartridge. Or rather, about its tests at the firing range. Dated to 1937.

etc ...
I currently have records my datawarehouse for fund 29 which contains currently 933052 sheets of paper.
Or :
------------------------
In the archive fund: 20 : GAU , , inventory no. 24 . Development of 20 mm Svak ammunition (include T) I found a record of 65 sheets..Dated to 1936-37.



I currently have records my datawarehouse for fund 29 which contains currently 2 010 730 sheets of paper.

The Russian State Military Historical Archive: A Guide

The Russian State Military Historical Archive (RGVIA; Российский государственный военно-исторический архив) is one of the largest archives in Russia. Its

geohistory.today

 

[Burney Davis]

Hi Burney Davis According to the data, the bullet should have 8 right- grooves. Is this true on your specimen?
Akon

It has 9 grooves/lands and is right hand twist so probably not from that weapon.

 

[AKON_]

It has 9 grooves/lands and is right hand twist so probably not from that weapon.

Hi BD
This brings me to the next point that I don't know anything. The only thing that could change this is to read all the correspondence on the 20mm Svak project, whether it was always 8 grooves or was there another variant.... The truth is that there were plenty of 20mm weapons (Berezin ... ), including prototypes. I'll see if I can find 9 grooves in the Russian material...
Akon

 

[Burney Davis]

Hi BD
This brings me to the next point that I don't know anything. The only thing that could change this is to read all the correspondence on the 20mm Svak project, whether it was always 8 grooves or was there another variant.... The truth is that there were plenty of 20mm weapons (Berezin ... ), including prototypes. I'll see if I can find 9 grooves in the Russian material...
Akon

Possibly a stupid question bearing in mind I know little about 20mm cannon shells, but why do you think Russian?

 

[AKON_]

Hi BD
another question about the material: your bullet is between 85g - 86g can you confirm that?
Before I answer.
Thanks .
Akon

 

[Burney Davis]

Hi BD
another question about the material: your bullet is between 85g - 86g can you confirm that?
Before I answer.
Thanks .
Akon

It's 106 g .....

 

[AKON_]

For now, there are two parameters that exclude its use in 2cm Svak. By the way, Svak was also produced outside of Russia and who knows in what modifications? I was interested in the detail of the groove on the bullet for crimping the cartridge.... I found one on a Czechoslovak rifle..here is an example:
For example, here is a Czech bullet marked JCv Sv-VH - cartridge 20x138 .
Used in insert barrels main tanks .There were certainly more versions . Here are two ... which only have a hole and a Pzgr shape.

Unfortunately, it is not 54mm long, only about 50mm.



Akon

 

[Burney Davis]

For now, there are two parameters that exclude its use in 2cm Svak. By the way, Svak was also produced outside of Russia and who knows in what modifications? I was interested in the detail of the groove on the bullet for crimping the cartridge.... I found one on a Czechoslovak rifle..here is an example:
For example, here is a Czech bullet marked JCv Sv-VH - cartridge 20x138 .
Used in insert barrels main tanks .There were certainly more versions . Here are two ... which only have a hole and a Pzgr shape.

Unfortunately, it is not 54mm long, only about 50mm.

View attachment 210602

Akon

Thanks for your effort. I've remeasured and it is definitely 54mm long, 106g and 9 lands/grooves.

 

[AKON_]

Thanks for your effort. I've remeasured and it is definitely 54mm long, 106g and 9 lands/grooves.

All you have to do is search

 

[Krt7.92]

I would also like to know the ID of this projectile. I've got an unfired one. Lenght and weight (107g) are the same. Tracer-element is empty. Not sure if the black paint is original.

 

[AKON_]

I would also like to know the ID of this projectile. I've got an unfired one. Lenght and weight (107g) are the same. Tracer-element is empty. Not sure if the black paint is original.

Hi Krt7.92
Could you measure the radius of the front ogival?
And the second question is: is the hole for the stopcock finished as after drilling or is there a different shape?
Thank you.
Akon

 

[AKON_]

Thanks for your effort. I've remeasured and it is definitely 54mm long, 106g and 9 lands/grooves.

9 lands/ grooves for example, it has a German 20mm MG-FF, i.e. it also shows the groove for crimping the cartridge on Oerlikon...

 

[Hoeksel]

They remind me of Swedish 20 mm projectiles (SKF made on 20 mm Hispano shell case), I checked an ordnance manual and found this.

 

[Rrickoshae]

And just to add another option, there were a load of them around about 25years ago. They were said to be Hispano used as plate testing shot.

 

[AKON_]

As for HS-404, it meets the 9-groove parameter, so it advances to the semifinals (it's possible).
That front ogival is quite Hispano

Akon