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Unknown German projectile for ID please
- Thread starter charley777
- Start date
The Germans use some captured 4.5" AA and Field guns. If it is not for the field gun then maybe the AA gun. The German gave a designation for the British 4.5" AA Gun (Land Service), so in theory they would probably have needed more ammunition than they captured with the guns.
The designation was 11.4 cm Flak (e) - I think.
The designation was 11.4 cm Flak (e) - I think.
Can you put the document om BOCN please
greif
Well-Known Member
I think it is a practice shell for the Dutch 12 cm naval gun L/50 (Bofors), which was a captured gun in use with the German Navy. Dutch shells with copper driving bands and brass cases were used by the German Navy, but later in the war the Germans produced their own shells with iron driving bands and steel cases.
I don’t know the official German designation of the gun, but the German steel cartridge cases were designated 12 cm Patrh. 41 St (H) or in short in the head stamp: 12 – 41 St (H). Case dimensions are 120 x 720 mm.
The shell you are showing has some long arrows stamped in, which means it was an inert loaded shell for practice use. German naval practice shells were painted red hence the red paint in the stampings.
Both driving bands lack profile, so I think it was a recovered fired shell from which the rifling in the driving bands was turned off on a lathe.
Below a picture of 3 cartridges for the 12 cm gun. From left to right: a HE shell fitted with a Zt.Z.S/30 and iron driving bands on a steel case, then a star shell fitted with a Zt.Z.S/60 nA and iron driving bands on a brass case and at last a practice shell fitted with a zinc transport plug and copper driving bands on a steel case.
Also a picture of the headstamp of a steel case. Note that the electric C/22 primer is not correct, this must be a C/12 primer.
The pictures were taken at the Warmuseum Overloon in the Netherlands.
I don’t know the official German designation of the gun, but the German steel cartridge cases were designated 12 cm Patrh. 41 St (H) or in short in the head stamp: 12 – 41 St (H). Case dimensions are 120 x 720 mm.
The shell you are showing has some long arrows stamped in, which means it was an inert loaded shell for practice use. German naval practice shells were painted red hence the red paint in the stampings.
Both driving bands lack profile, so I think it was a recovered fired shell from which the rifling in the driving bands was turned off on a lathe.
Below a picture of 3 cartridges for the 12 cm gun. From left to right: a HE shell fitted with a Zt.Z.S/30 and iron driving bands on a steel case, then a star shell fitted with a Zt.Z.S/60 nA and iron driving bands on a brass case and at last a practice shell fitted with a zinc transport plug and copper driving bands on a steel case.
Also a picture of the headstamp of a steel case. Note that the electric C/22 primer is not correct, this must be a C/12 primer.
The pictures were taken at the Warmuseum Overloon in the Netherlands.
Attachments
charley777
Well-Known Member
Thanks very much for the detailed reply. I will pass the information to the owner of the shell. Very interesting indeed
Hey guys,
Are we talking about the same shell? I thought form charley777's original post that the shell on the far right of the original picture is the 114mm he is asking about, with the 2 boat-tailed shells on the left being the 88mm shells he mentions (the 2 on the left appear to be the same caliber, while the one on the right is clearly a larger caliber). Did I get this wrong?
Are we talking about the same shell? I thought form charley777's original post that the shell on the far right of the original picture is the 114mm he is asking about, with the 2 boat-tailed shells on the left being the 88mm shells he mentions (the 2 on the left appear to be the same caliber, while the one on the right is clearly a larger caliber). Did I get this wrong?
charley777
Well-Known Member
Yes it is the shell on the right
Sorry, file is too big. You'll have to fetch it https://invenio.bundesarchiv.de/invenio/direktlink/577b24be-fc36-4708-b199-aae9d0bb0d84/
greif
Well-Known Member
Yes, we do. The are talking about the shells in the first posting of charley777. There was wrongly mentioned that some 88 mm projecties were shown. If you zoom in on the middle shell in the original picture in the first posting you will notice It has the same red markings as shown on the detailled pictures.So we are not talking about the same shells.